Recommended all-season tires for RDX...

Old 10-28-2010, 03:07 PM
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Performance All Seasons - Although its Consumer Reports....im not sold on the Avids, Tireracks winter test of them (the Avid W4's) were terrible, ive ran Avids before they are pretty good but i think there are better out there. If it snows, rains alot, or just shitty weather, i would really question putting Avids on

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Old 10-28-2010, 03:18 PM
  #42  
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what i mean to say is - there are better tires if you really do encounter ALL WEATHER vs mostly dry and some rain...otherwise, nothing wrong with the Yoko's, great on dry
Old 10-28-2010, 03:25 PM
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In response to MMike 1981: These were my same concerns with the Yoko's but the new ENVigor is supposed to have an improved compound for winter traction over the previous Avid model. I am in the Boston area and I know that these should compliment the SH-AWD much better than the factory Michelin's. Since there was no winter test done yet, I will make sure to report after driving through my first New England snow storm.
Old 10-28-2010, 04:38 PM
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Originally Posted by MMike1981
what i mean to say is - there are better tires if you really do encounter ALL WEATHER vs mostly dry and some rain...otherwise, nothing wrong with the Yoko's, great on dry
Oregon calling here. It rained like Satan bit off one of God's balls last weekend and I specifically drove the shit out of those tires and they EXCEEDED my very picky expectations. This is NOT the "Avid W4's" It may have a similar tread pattern, but that is it. As far as snow is concerned, I have read every review I could get my eyes on and Nothing works better than dedicated snow tires.
Old 10-28-2010, 04:57 PM
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Originally Posted by TwinTurboG
In response to MMike 1981: These were my same concerns with the Yoko's but the new ENVigor is supposed to have an improved compound for winter traction over the previous Avid model. I am in the Boston area and I know that these should compliment the SH-AWD much better than the factory Michelin's. Since there was no winter test done yet, I will make sure to report after driving through my first New England snow storm.
Right - the Envigors are supposed to be an improvement, hopefully they are because if u watch Tireracks winter video of the old ones, you dont want them on your ride in boston!!!

additionally - ANYTHING is basically an improvement over the stock mich wet & snow ability

Mr. Marco (or anyone): http://www.tirerack.com/tires/tests/...y.jsp?ttid=124 (if u havent watched it before)
Old 10-28-2010, 05:09 PM
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Like I said EVERY review.
Old 10-28-2010, 05:10 PM
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like i said, if u havent watched before, and for anyones benefit
Old 10-29-2010, 09:40 AM
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Update on the weight of the Acura Upgraded 19" Chrome Look wheels and Yokohama Avid ENVigor 245/45/19's.

Wheel: 29.5 Lbs
Tire: 28 Lbs
That means the total weight per wheel and tire is 57.5 Lbs which seems pretty heavy. My assumption is that I should get better Hwy gas mileage but worse overall city mileage with these tires than the stock 18"s due to more rotational mass. Does anyone know the weight of the stock 18" wheel with the Mich tire?
Old 10-29-2010, 08:06 PM
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I got a set of 235/55R18 Envigor's for my 2007 RDX and ABSOLUTLEY LOVE THEM.

The first set of tires on any vehicle I've ever owned that my wife volunteered how much she liked them.

Less road noise, less choppy ride, 60k mileage guarantee, and even feels like it has better turn in.

Strongly considered going to the next size up 18", but for the Envigor it would have been 255/55R18, and Yokomama and TireRack said they'd be too tall.
Old 11-02-2010, 05:38 PM
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Old 11-02-2010, 05:49 PM
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Originally Posted by TwinTurboG
Update on the weight of the Acura Upgraded 19" Chrome Look wheels and Yokohama Avid ENVigor 245/45/19's.

Wheel: 29.5 Lbs
Tire: 28 Lbs
That means the total weight per wheel and tire is 57.5 Lbs which seems pretty heavy. My assumption is that I should get better Hwy gas mileage but worse overall city mileage with these tires than the stock 18"s due to more rotational mass. Does anyone know the weight of the stock 18" wheel with the Mich tire?
Very nice! The stock weight on the silver 18" Enkie's with Michelin's was something like 56lbs. Those Mich had a really low roll resistance. I'm get 1mpg less with the Yoko's.
Old 12-02-2010, 05:02 PM
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Originally Posted by HotFlyer
Hello to All,
I just installed a set of Yokohama Prada Spec-X 235x55x18. Tire Rack rated it number 1 in class, Street/Sport Truck All-Season. They were $70.00 per tire less then the stock Michelin's. I only have 20 miles on them but first impression is very positive. It is very similar to the stock Michelin's, smooth and quiet ride. I will wait a couple of hundred miles before I push them on performance.
I will report back later on updates.

Howard
Seeing a shit ton of these on the road lately, any update on the performance?
Old 12-06-2010, 11:44 PM
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michelin

Originally Posted by wandjs08
Hello, we've been looking for really good all-season tires for our 2007 RDX. Originally, we were looking at the Nokian WR & WRG2, but Nokian didn't make their all-seasons in the Acura RDX recommended tire size 235/55 R18. So, we're back to the drawing board...

We were given a couple other brand recommendations and want to know what any of you think or currently use & would recommend too?

These are the recommendations we received:
1. Goodyear Fortera triple-tread
2. Michelin MXM4

Thanks for your opinions!
Michelin can for sure be a very good recommendation for RDX
Old 12-06-2010, 11:46 PM
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great solution

Originally Posted by wwest
The answer depends GREATLY on your driving locate/climate.

Here on the Seattle eastside we encounter wintertime adverse roadbed conditions rare enough that I do not feel the need for specialty winter tires. My '01 F/AWD RX300 runs on nice and quiet, comfortably riding "summer only" Bridgestone Turanzas all the year around. I keep a set of "quick-n-easy" chains for the rear in the RX and then add the second set during the winter months.

The summer tires obviously give me better traction vs winter treads in the dry, and more likely than otherwise even on black ice or hard packed snow. The only time the chains are advantageous is in a loose/slippery surface where they provide more "bite" than the summer tires.

If we are traveling to (skiing) or over the Pass in the wintertime my backup is a R/AWD '94 Ford Aerostar. It's also fitted with summer only tires (chains on board) but with handling on the adverse stuff that is a bit more benign than any FWD or even a F/AWD vehicle.
great solution for both the climates i must say
Old 12-06-2010, 11:47 PM
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tire sizes

Originally Posted by cwepruk
I'm reasonably happy with the OEM rubber. You could also look into other sizes (i.e. 245/50/18).

http://www.miata.net/garage/tirecalc.html
what are the other recommended sizes for RDX
Old 12-06-2010, 11:49 PM
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Mxm4

Originally Posted by Teledatageek
Wondering if you picked one of the above tires? I'm looking at the Bridgestone Dueler H/L Alenza or the Goodyear Fortera TripleTred. The Bridgestones are $180.00 less for the set of 4. Wondering if the bump in price is worth it for the Goodyears. FYI - not many glowing reviews on the OEM tires.
what WOULD BE THE PRICE OF MXM4 TIRES ?
Old 12-07-2010, 01:33 PM
  #57  
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^
price them out on the net??? can you not? tirerack.com is a good start (to answer pricing and every other question youve asked)

the stock rubber, generally, last time ive checked are around 300 per tire (not including service) so maybe ud be looking at 320+ per corner. Among the many reasons why the OEM rubber suck, price is a big one. about dbl the price of anything else.
Old 12-07-2010, 04:47 PM
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Originally Posted by MMike1981
^
price them out on the net??? can you not? tirerack.com is a good start (to answer pricing and every other question youve asked)

the stock rubber, generally, last time ive checked are around 300 per tire (not including service) so maybe ud be looking at 320+ per corner. Among the many reasons why the OEM rubber suck, price is a big one. about dbl the price of anything else.
What boggles my mind is why is the OEM Michelins SO expensive as compared to everything else? What makes them command such a high price especially with their lack luster reviews.
Old 12-08-2010, 12:07 AM
  #59  
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who knows. dont care how sharp their turn in may be, i did more hydroplaning in wet weather on those things than any other vehicle/tire ive ever owned. All seasons are a tough sell (as in must do everything well but usually lack somewhere), i can somewhat see why they are on there, they certainly feel sporty, but thats about it.
Old 12-08-2010, 11:58 AM
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Originally Posted by Carbon2008RDX
What boggles my mind is why is the OEM Michelins SO expensive as compared to everything else? What makes them command such a high price especially with their lack luster reviews.
Marketing is no doubt a huge cost for Michelin and reflected in the price.

Originally Posted by MMike1981
who knows. dont care how sharp their turn in may be, i did more hydroplaning in wet weather on those things than any other vehicle/tire ive ever owned. All seasons are a tough sell (as in must do everything well but usually lack somewhere), i can somewhat see why they are on there, they certainly feel sporty, but thats about it.
You have to sacrifice something to get LRR out of a tire.
Old 12-14-2010, 09:37 PM
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Yokohama AVID Envigor snow performance?

Since a fair portion of the country has had a decent amount of snowfall, do any of you have any more winter feedback to report on the Yokohama AVID Envigor tires?

I'm really interested to hear what you all think about the tire's snow and light snow performance. I'm really close to pulling the trigger on these tires as the Michelin OEM's are now down to 4-32" (with about 31,000 miles on them) and just like others have noted, both the wet and dry traction have seriously deteriorated. Lots of skidding and chirping when accelerating into a corner or pulling out into traffic, and in the rain I agree with others that the car has almost become unsafe on the Michelins.

Not too sold on the Conti DWS for some reason given the apparently compromises in "road feel" and dry handling that others have cited, so looking at the Envigor as the next best alternative--- and certainly don't want to go back to Michelin.

Thanks...
Old 12-17-2010, 10:13 AM
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Originally Posted by TwinTurboG
Update on the weight of the Acura Upgraded 19" Chrome Look wheels and Yokohama Avid ENVigor 245/45/19's.

Wheel: 29.5 Lbs
Tire: 28 Lbs
That means the total weight per wheel and tire is 57.5 Lbs which seems pretty heavy. My assumption is that I should get better Hwy gas mileage but worse overall city mileage with these tires than the stock 18"s due to more rotational mass. Does anyone know the weight of the stock 18" wheel with the Mich tire?
The (2007-2009) OEM 18" wheel weighs 27 lbs. The OEM Michelin MXM4 weighs 29 lbs.
Old 12-18-2010, 02:04 AM
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I'm hearing that the Yoko ENVigors are on "national backorder" and I can't seem to find them.

Any scuttlebutt?
Old 12-18-2010, 12:40 PM
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I just bought a set in Portland, OR and they had to order them from a place in Kansas because none of their stores (Discount Tire) out here had them in stock. So far--two thumbs up on these tires.
Old 12-28-2010, 03:19 PM
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Driving RDX in the Snow with the Yoko ENVigors

Originally Posted by Seekup41
Since a fair portion of the country has had a decent amount of snowfall, do any of you have any more winter feedback to report on the Yokohama AVID Envigor tires?

I'm really interested to hear what you all think about the tire's snow and light snow performance. I'm really close to pulling the trigger on these tires as the Michelin OEM's are now down to 4-32" (with about 31,000 miles on them) and just like others have noted, both the wet and dry traction have seriously deteriorated. Lots of skidding and chirping when accelerating into a corner or pulling out into traffic, and in the rain I agree with others that the car has almost become unsafe on the Michelins.

Not too sold on the Conti DWS for some reason given the apparently compromises in "road feel" and dry handling that others have cited, so looking at the Envigor as the next best alternative--- and certainly don't want to go back to Michelin.

Thanks...
I finally got the chance to drive on the Yoko ENVigor's in the snow so I thought that I would give some feedback. We got about 16 inches of snow here in the Boston area so I spent the first half of my day digging out. Around lunchtime, I decided to go for a drive to town and pick up some lunch/run some errands for the wife (I offered so I could be alone in the car ). First impression as I was driving conservatively down the road is that I felt pretty confident on the 2 inches of packed snow that the plow had not been able to get up off the road. The ABS only activated slightly as I aggressively came to a stop from about 25 mph. Since I am more of a purest, I usually like to turn the VCS off in these conditions but this time I drove with it on. I decided that I was going to find a parking lot that was plowed but snow covered enough to test the traction of the tires with some low speed manuvers. I found that as long as was easy on the gas and I didn't floor it, the tires did a good job of predictably channeling the snow and going in the direction that I turned the wheel. As soon as I decided to push a little harder and try a quick u-turn, I noticed that a state trooper got curious and started driving in my direction so I quickly parked and walked into the store as if I was done. All I needed was to come home with a ticket for wreckless driving and my wife would have hit the roof, LOL.

Speaking of getting back home, getting back up our driveway happens to be the most challanging part of the trip (about 50 ft. long with 30ft. being 40 degree angle uphill). At first, Since I had built some confidence on my short drive home, I tried to back up the driveway. I got halfway up and the back end started swinging to the right but I stopped inches from hitting the stone wall. OK, bad idea, so I turned around and without a running start, floored it up the hill. This is where I should have turned the TCS off because I got most of the way up and had to keep it floored while the AWD and TCS did it's thing to inch up the rest of the way slowly.

In conclusion, if you are in an area where you are going up and down steep grades, there is no better alternative than snow tires. I can defintely live with these tires as an All-Season solution in the winter on the RDX knowing that I will need to turn the TCS off when going up the driveway to prevent stalling and get the wheels spinning.

From all of the reviews that I read about the Conti DWS, I think I would have to say that they are still probably a better tire in the snow/ice than these but then again, you get a softer sidewall and sacrifice turn in feel vs. a more responsive tire in all other weather conditions with the Yoko ENVigor.
Old 12-28-2010, 07:14 PM
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Originally Posted by TwinTurboG
I finally got the chance to drive on the Yoko ENVigor's in the snow so I thought that I would give some feedback. We got about 16 inches of snow here in the Boston area so I spent the first half of my day digging out. Around lunchtime, I decided to go for a drive to town and pick up some lunch/run some errands for the wife (I offered so I could be alone in the car ). First impression as I was driving conservatively down the road is that I felt pretty confident on the 2 inches of packed snow that the plow had not been able to get up off the road. The ABS only activated slightly as I aggressively came to a stop from about 25 mph. Since I am more of a purest, I usually like to turn the VCS off in these conditions but this time I drove with it on. I decided that I was going to find a parking lot that was plowed but snow covered enough to test the traction of the tires with some low speed manuvers. I found that as long as was easy on the gas and I didn't floor it, the tires did a good job of predictably channeling the snow and going in the direction that I turned the wheel. As soon as I decided to push a little harder and try a quick u-turn, I noticed that a state trooper got curious and started driving in my direction so I quickly parked and walked into the store as if I was done. All I needed was to come home with a ticket for wreckless driving and my wife would have hit the roof, LOL.

Speaking of getting back home, getting back up our driveway happens to be the most challanging part of the trip (about 50 ft. long with 30ft. being 40 degree angle uphill). At first, Since I had built some confidence on my short drive home, I tried to back up the driveway. I got halfway up and the back end started swinging to the right but I stopped inches from hitting the stone wall. OK, bad idea, so I turned around and without a running start, floored it up the hill. This is where I should have turned the TCS off because I got most of the way up and had to keep it floored while the AWD and TCS did it's thing to inch up the rest of the way slowly.

In conclusion, if you are in an area where you are going up and down steep grades, there is no better alternative than snow tires. I can defintely live with these tires as an All-Season solution in the winter on the RDX knowing that I will need to turn the TCS off when going up the driveway to prevent stalling and get the wheels spinning.

From all of the reviews that I read about the Conti DWS, I think I would have to say that they are still probably a better tire in the snow/ice than these but then again, you get a softer sidewall and sacrifice turn in feel vs. a more responsive tire in all other weather conditions with the Yoko ENVigor.
Thanks for the feedback. It's a tough decision. Seem to hear so many good things about the Conti DWS and Yokohama ENVigors-- definitely want to be safe in the winter and in the wet, but thinking back to the OEM's, they only started to suck really bad when the tread depth got down. I agree with the other posters who have had a major deterioration in wet/rainy traction. Right now my OEM's are at about 5/32" with about 31K miles. Definitely have noticed more chirping with quick acceleration, and lots of SCARY hydroplaning in the rain. The few snowfalls we have had have also been a little touch and go as well, so looking to replace the OEM's soon.

That being said everyone seems to comment that both the Avid's and the Conti's both sacrifice a little in dry handling and specifically in turn-in feel. What do you think about the Avid's on dry pavement? Does it change the handling dynamics of the RDX that much? I hate to lose the character/personality of the vehicle just for snow, because when it comes down to it, all-season tires ALL suck in the snow and require patience behind the wheel in rough weather.

After all part of why we all like the RDX is the more responsive handling compared to its peers, right? I don't want to turn the RDX in a soft riding and soft handling vehicle!

Thanks..
Old 01-04-2011, 03:39 PM
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Yokos and Contis are definitely hard to come by right now. Anyone have an opinion on the Bridgestone Dueler Ecopias?
Old 01-04-2011, 05:39 PM
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Originally Posted by Seekup41
Thanks for the feedback. It's a tough decision. Seem to hear so many good things about the Conti DWS and Yokohama ENVigors-- definitely want to be safe in the winter and in the wet, but thinking back to the OEM's, they only started to suck really bad when the tread depth got down. I agree with the other posters who have had a major deterioration in wet/rainy traction. Right now my OEM's are at about 5/32" with about 31K miles. Definitely have noticed more chirping with quick acceleration, and lots of SCARY hydroplaning in the rain. The few snowfalls we have had have also been a little touch and go as well, so looking to replace the OEM's soon.

That being said everyone seems to comment that both the Avid's and the Conti's both sacrifice a little in dry handling and specifically in turn-in feel. What do you think about the Avid's on dry pavement? Does it change the handling dynamics of the RDX that much? I hate to lose the character/personality of the vehicle just for snow, because when it comes down to it, all-season tires ALL suck in the snow and require patience behind the wheel in rough weather.

After all part of why we all like the RDX is the more responsive handling compared to its peers, right? I don't want to turn the RDX in a soft riding and soft handling vehicle!

Thanks..
Dry handling is substantially improved with the "W" rated 19" Yokohama Avid ENVigor's (I think the 18" is rated "H"). Traction loss is very predicable and comfortable verses the OEM Michelin's which would snap out suddenly when rolled hard into a corner. I highly recommend the Yokohama as a affordable performance tire. Again, it is not what I would consider a Ultra High Performance Tire as listed by the TireRack.
Old 01-08-2011, 05:43 AM
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Well, I'm pulling the trigger on the ecopias. Can't get the yokos or contis. Wish me luck!
Old 01-10-2011, 07:08 PM
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I have had a set of the DWS. Seemed like good tires for the first few thousand miles. Competent in the wet for sure. Towards the end of the tread life one of them could not be balanced. After two recent snowstorms here with 12 plus inches each time, I am sold on my most recent tire- Goodyear Assurance Fuelmax CS . Never stuck in the snow like last year (I had a set of Yokohoma Avids). The Goodyears exceed all specs of the OEM tires (65k treadwear warranty, 100V service description) and are made is the U.S. Hope they have decent wear. We'll see.
Old 01-10-2011, 08:06 PM
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Originally Posted by ltngbg99
I have had a set of the DWS. Seemed like good tires for the first few thousand miles. Competent in the wet for sure. Towards the end of the tread life one of them could not be balanced. After two recent snowstorms here with 12 plus inches each time, I am sold on my most recent tire- Goodyear Assurance Fuelmax CS . Never stuck in the snow like last year (I had a set of Yokohoma Avids). The Goodyears exceed all specs of the OEM tires (65k treadwear warranty, 100V service description) and are made is the U.S. Hope they have decent wear. We'll see.
So are the AVIDs that bad in the snow? How did they compare to the OEM Michelin in the snow? I've never had as much trouble as some have suggested with the OEM's in the snow (or, more likely I've learned to compensate). But supposedly the AVIDs and Conti DWS's had so much better snow capability (based on tire-rack and other composite ratings). However now after a few months of snow reviews on places like tire rack, the parade of negative reviews have come out against the AVID and a few even luke-warm for the DWS--- saying that the AVID can be "Scary" and the DWS not much better.

I know we should all just buy dedicated winter tires and be done with it.

But it seems like something must give in the equation. DWS seems to sacrifice turn-in feel and steering, AVID some degree of snow capability (though again, supposedly rated better numerically when compared to other competitors), and the OEM's just all around marginal at best.

Then again, i never really had any trouble with the OEM's (including in light/moderate snow), so part of me hates giving up the feel of the road/turns/bends given by the OEM. I hate to make this car feel/act less sportily because of a tire change.

What a tough decision this is.....
Old 01-11-2011, 05:31 PM
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Avids were terrible in snow. Rather good at everything else except, of course, tread life.
Old 01-11-2011, 06:37 PM
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Originally Posted by Seekup41
So are the AVIDs that bad in the snow? How did they compare to the OEM Michelin in the snow? I've never had as much trouble as some have suggested with the OEM's in the snow (or, more likely I've learned to compensate). But supposedly the AVIDs and Conti DWS's had so much better snow capability (based on tire-rack and other composite ratings). However now after a few months of snow reviews on places like tire rack, the parade of negative reviews have come out against the AVID and a few even luke-warm for the DWS--- saying that the AVID can be "Scary" and the DWS not much better.

I know we should all just buy dedicated winter tires and be done with it.

But it seems like something must give in the equation. DWS seems to sacrifice turn-in feel and steering, AVID some degree of snow capability (though again, supposedly rated better numerically when compared to other competitors), and the OEM's just all around marginal at best.

Then again, i never really had any trouble with the OEM's (including in light/moderate snow), so part of me hates giving up the feel of the road/turns/bends given by the OEM. I hate to make this car feel/act less sportily because of a tire change.

What a tough decision this is.....
Was this a review on the rack? Could you post a link?

Put the i-pike snows on this weekend and hate the noise. We shall see if it even snows tonight. I'll be taking them off again on Saturday.
Old 01-11-2011, 06:38 PM
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Originally Posted by ltngbg99
Avids were terrible in snow. Rather good at everything else except, of course, tread life.
You've already gone through a set?????? They just came out.
Old 01-11-2011, 11:51 PM
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Ltng: tireracks winter review of the Yokos show them being awful in the snow. Nothing surprising there.

also, arent you the guy who blows thru tires like every 15k - 20k...if its STILL happening..u need to find someone competent enough to find out what is wrong with your RDX, its not the rubber. Or, how you are driving. In all honesty, something is up with the car. If you are NOT this particular person, then disregard my comments please. But for such low mileage and issues on such a consistent basis across many different brands, its not the tires.

I rolled 10k on my DWS so far, and ill reiterate, this is the best performing all season tire in snow/wet ive ever driven on in 20 years of driving.
Old 01-12-2011, 12:56 AM
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Yoko Avid Envigors

After a little more than a month of driving--an improvement over OEM's in ride, quiet, etc. But---noticeable reduction in gas mileage of 1-2 mpg.
Old 01-12-2011, 04:43 PM
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Originally Posted by MMike1981
Ltng: tireracks winter review of the Yokos show them being awful in the snow. Nothing surprising there.

also, arent you the guy who blows thru tires like every 15k - 20k...if its STILL happening..u need to find someone competent enough to find out what is wrong with your RDX, its not the rubber. Or, how you are driving. In all honesty, something is up with the car. If you are NOT this particular person, then disregard my comments please. But for such low mileage and issues on such a consistent basis across many different brands, its not the tires.

I rolled 10k on my DWS so far, and ill reiterate, this is the best performing all season tire in snow/wet ive ever driven on in 20 years of driving.
Hey Ignore,

Are you referring to the Yokohama H4s or W4s???? The Yokohama Avid ENVigor was not on the market in January'09!

You posted this video before,

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yo1sudvLNNQ

I have the i-pike snows on the car right now, but next time it snows I will try to leave the Yokohama on the RDX and get out in at least an inch of snow for comparison. I'll make my own video and upload it so everyone can get an idea of what they drive like in real snow.
Old 01-12-2011, 09:45 PM
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Do it right and get the Bridgestone Dueler H/L Alenza. You will not be disappointed. We currently have some of the worst roads I've ever driven on in North Dakota and these tires are awesome.



Here's what the Walmart parking lot looked like about 10 days ago and it hasn't gotten any better. There is a lot of ice and compacted snow on the roads and most roads look like this, if not worse.

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Here's what the road in front of our house has looked like for a few weeks. We've had a lot of drifting snow filling in the roads lately.
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Old 01-13-2011, 08:55 PM
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Holy cow! You qualify as "Expert" with that drift! What size and how much did they cost?
Old 01-16-2011, 09:14 AM
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Mr Marco, Yokohama Avid W4s are the ones I had that were bad in snow and wore out to 2mm tread in <20k. Since then I have had Continental DWS-wore them out to 2mm tread at around 23000. Now have new Goodyear Assurance Fuelmax CS- excellent snow traction so far this season.

Last edited by ltngbg99; 01-16-2011 at 09:21 AM. Reason: Added comment about snow performance

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