dandansoi

Tested CX7 today. I thought the car was price well @ 25K loaded w/ leather, Moonroof, Sirrius, etc. just front well drive though. The manual shifter, I thought it performed-quite and smooth.

The 6 speed Auto Trans: it shift smoothly. Turbo did provide good power @244 hp( i don't know anything about Turbo).

I can't wait to compare the two.

CL6

A Mazda will never be an Acura. Or even a Honda. More equal with Nissan or Subaru.

Colin

The "problem" that I think (read: my opinion) Mazda has with the CX7 will be the same as they have with the 6. It's one car that has to serve too many markets. It ends up trying to be the "jack of all trades" and master of none.

Honda has the advantage of the Acura brand. This allows them to build the RDX to a specific trim level and allow all those that balk at the price to go to the CR-V (or Pilot). It still keeps the sale "in the family" so to speak.

vishnus11

I'm just as big a Honda/Acura fan as the next guy but that's an ignorant statement on your behalf. Some of Mazda's more recent vehicles compare VERY favorably with newer Hondas. E.g. the Mazda 3 is one heck of a vehicle offering features (leather, rain sensing wipers, xenons) that a civic doesn't.

CL6

Mazda quality is nowhere near Honda. Fact. Look at the V6 engine Mazda uses. It's an old design Ford powerplant that, compared to a Toyota or Honda V6 makes little power, gets bac gas mileage, and produces about 3 times the pollution. Mazda has always been a second tier Japanese car company. The reason they offer those features, like Hyundai, is to entice buyers whereas Honda doesn't have to... people know it's quality. Add to that Ford owns a large bit of Mazda and all the incentives they have to offer and you see why I made my statement, which I stand by.

I'm sure the Mazda C7 is nice... but it's not a Honda much less an Acura.

fast1

Can we please refrain from the brand snobbery? Threads like these are starting to sound like a BMW forum where nothing equals our brand. There are good offerings from many brands that people consider 'inferior'.

I'll agree that there is a trend in heirarchy of brands but people like to blanket rate them all because they are ignorant that certain cars from a 'inferior' brand may exceed a 'superior' branded one. I guess the Ford GT and Viper are just Ford and Dodge pieces of crap! I watched idiots defend the BMW 318 and the only real ammunition people ever seemed to have was, "...but it's a BMW!"

I just want to hear logical and thoughtout conversations and not just things like, "it sucks because it's a (not Honda/Acura brand)!" Otherwise all of us look like ignorant fools pushing our opinions as facts.

How can anyone really exaluate the CX-7 versus RDX objectively anyhow... does anyone actually own one yet? I don't think anyone on here has even driven the RDX yet much less seen an actual production version (the car show demo doesn't count as it is more of a one off; not an actual production line example!) so let's stick to our opinions and not unfounded rants until it arrives and an actual comparison is done.

CL6

I looked at buying a Mazda 6 Wagon with the stick shift. I test drove the V6 model. Since I sell Acuras I see a lot of trade-ins as well. I probably drive about 100 different kinds of cars per year. In my experience, the 'first tier' Japanese cars are: Toyota and Honda (and their premium divisions). Second tier tend to be Nissan (moving up though), Mazda and Subaru. Third tier are Mitsubishi, Isuzu, and Suzuki. By 'tier' I mean the engineering qualities, reliability, re-sale vale, and feel of materials. The Mazda 6 Wagon I drove seemed okay on the surface but the plastic felt cheaper than with Honda/Toyota, the engine didn't like getting revved up, and it didn't produce much power for its displacement. So I'm not slinging hash based on an uneducated opinion. You slam the doors on these cars, drive them, see what their resale value is, etc.

I'm not saying Mazda is a POS I'm saying it's not the same as a Honda/Acura.

And BMWs drive awesome but they are crap for reliability but they have a following.

I'll be driving the RDX sometime in early-July it looks like and if it's at least of the quality of the RSX it'll be a winner.

eqt2010

I don't know whether or not you've ever driven the new Subaru Legacy / Outback. It's waaaaay better than Toyota Camry or Honda Accord (power/handling). For the reliability, Consumer Reports recommends all Subaru car models just like what it does to Toyota / Honda.

CL6

Yeah we had a few here. Seemed somewhat sluggish at the higher RPMs. Subaru is a good car. My best friend bought an Forester wagon and he likes it a lot. I just don't personally see Subaru as a major player in the auto industry in terms of volume. I still think that the 'plasticky' feel of the inside is closer to a Camry of the late-90s. But I give Subaru credit for sticking with its boxer engine design.

JERU

Not sure about content vehicle versus vehicle, but that Mazda looks really good. As much as I like Hondas and Acuras, I am not feeling the front end of that Acura at all, they should have made it look a bit more agressive. There are definitely better looking lux entry SUV's in that price range. I imagine Acura will knock everyone over the head with the interior though...

kleptomaniak

You need to be more selective than using blanket statements like you do. Using one engine, Ford's Duratec V6, to make a global assumption about Honda's superior quality over Mazda as whole is completely misleading. I do not like the Mazda 6 with this engine, and I would take the Accord over it any day, but I would not against the Mazdaspeed6, which is almost all built in Japan, and shares the same engine as the CX7. Truth is that the CX-7 is also almost entirely built and assembled in Japan. The MZR, direct-injected, turbocharged engine it uses was primarly designed by Mazda engineers (the ones in Japan), and the car shares almost no parts with a Ford originated design. In fact it uses almost no parts with the Mazda 6. So my bet is that this car will last and perform just as long as the RDX. You should also note that Mazda has more mass production turbocharging experience than Acura, and I'd wait until a 2nd or 3rd year model - probably on both cars, but more so on the Acura.

In addition, I am a big Honda and Acura fan, but it's a matter of which car. I don't prefer civics, because I have owned 4 in my life - 3 used and 1 new (1996 DX). And you'll have to take my word, but I have had problems with all of them. They may have been small, out of warranty problems, but they were the kinds that you woud not expect from a company that boasts of legendary reliability. Don't take me wrong, I enjoyed those cars, but find them very overrated. With respect to Acuras, I absolutely love the first and second gen Integras, now those are super reliable. The car I wouls stay away from is a 2001 Acura TL Type-S. Global Competition, prompted Acura to have more parts and cars assembled outside of Japan, and this car's auto transmission was BIG problem. The outside vendor (not Japanese) used to assembled the trannys were horrible, which woud cause the transmission to fail at high speed and downshift to either second or first gear while going 90! Scary. Acura may have fixed this problem, but a
owners, like my cousin never got the problem resolved, and out of fear he sold the car. Honda has since resolved the problem of coure with its current TL. Now this is a extreme example but get my point? I wouldn't used that car's problems and say that Mazda is superior to Acuras!

With respect to today's Civic. The two door is an awesome car and in a league complete above it's four door sibling, but the four door will get it pants destroyed by the Mazda 3 (equal quality, superior engine performance and handling). I stand by Mazda cars, because I owned a 1988 Mazda 323 (college hoopty), lasted me 280,000k! And I treated that car like my first girlfriend - REALLY bad! So it's a matter of cars. The 3, rx-8, and Mazda 5 are almost enirely built in Japan, and are reliable cars, just as much as any Acura and Honda. Just stay away from MPVs built in the mid to late 90's. These things had some major tranny issues, because his car shared Ford supplied trannys.

Comes down to a matter of taste, and how much you're willing to pay, and both the RDX and CX7 will be fantastic...just depends on what you like, but don't hate on anything that doesnt say "Honda" or "Acura", unless you really know what you are talking about.

dandansoi

If you think Honda/Acura is superior than Mazda, Subaru and Nissan, why did the transmission and coil spring was recalled?

I own Pathfinder 1996 with 374,000 miles, Maxima 1996 189,000, MAxima 2000 w/ 252,000. I've driven an Accord and prelude of my friends. I'm not impressed with handling. Acura/Honda cars are just too pricey for me.

RDX might be my first Honda. That if it really perfom far better than CX-7.
I'd like to own car that is fun to drive.

We shall see.

unlemming

Your implied blanket statement is better ...how? Throughout this response you make it sound like something made in Japan is inherently better. This is a far less accurate statement than a general statement about one companies product. (country > company) Especially funny since the design flawed tranny is from Japan, as you said. Doesn't matter where something is assembled if the design is flawed.

JERU

Owned a 96" Maxima with over 140,000 miles, the thing just would not break or have a problem. I traded it in because I was getting tired of driving it. That is reliability...

CL6

I have never said there is anything 'wrong' with owning a Mazda. My parents owned an RX3 (Wankel engine). And my example of the Ford-sourced V6 was just that, an example. But Ford does own 33% of Mazda. While this is not a bad thing per se, I wouldn't call FoMoCo to be the benchmark of quality and engineering prowess.

I think I cited several aspects in my post... re-sale value was one of them. Re-sale value tends to be higher for Toyota/Honda products. Why? You could argue people think these brands are better or you could argue they are just of higher quality. I've driven the new Honda Fits... for a sub-$15,000 car it is amazing what you get and the quality. No Mazda, Nissan, or Suzuki can match it. This is why I said I thought Honda was a 'first tier' Japanese car company.

I also cited 'feel of materials' which, granted, is subjective, but we all know when the plastic in a car feels cheap or not. Or whether the dash is kind of spongy and not rock hard. I was not impressed with these qualities of the Mazdas I've seen.

Comparing a Mazda CX7 to an Acura RDX is like comparing a Nissan Maxima to an Infiniti M35. Not the same ballgame. Doesn't mean the Maxima is a bad car, just means they're not in the same league. I bet you that, 2 years later, one will have much higher re-sale value than the other, too.

And the Honda/Acura transmission snafu was bad. Particularly because it lasted for so long. But Toyota will be recalling a few hundred thousand Priuses. And Subarus used to rust out all the time. Every company has made mistakes.

vishnus11

YOU might have had a bad experience with civics - maybe you treat your cars poorly. Civic have been and will always be eternally known for their fun to drive factor and bulletproof reliability. Its possible you bought some abused examples ...

Mazda as of late has been a major, major improvement over Mazda of old. Gosh, the 93 - 95 RX-7 motors could barely stay together for 60000 miles without having to get their turbos rebuilt. Never mind the fact that the late 90s 626 was a completely uninspired car that far from set the midsize sedan market alight. Yes, Honda makes mistakes, but in general, their vehicles are dead reliable. It remains to be seen how this new generation of Mazdas perform.

CL6 brings up some good points, but we all need the RDX and CX-7 to flood the marketplace before we start making assertions. For example, C&D has remarked that the quality of interior materials in the CX-7 would befit a vehicle with a higher pricetag.

And yes, I agree - both the CX-7 and the RDX will undoubtedly be fantastic vehicles, that will finally add some fun to drive factor to a segment that has been otherwise dominated by (IMO) the X3, and the RX330 (snooooooooze )......

kleptomaniak

Where did you get that from?

My original statement:

"The 3, rx-8, and Mazda 5 are almost enirely built in Japan, and are reliable cars, just as much as any Acura and Honda. Just stay away from MPVs built in the mid to late 90's. These things had some major tranny issues, because his car shared Ford supplied trannys."

Now where does it say that the MPV's transmission was built in Japan? It was built by Ford. I am merely stating fact, that some MPV's that used the Ford supplied transmission in the mid to late 90's had problems. In addition, certain earlier Acura TL models had tranny problems because an outside vendor was used to "assemble" the Acura designed tranny. With respect to the Acura it was not the design, but the quality of assembly. What I am communicating is that car Manufacturers (like BMW, Honda, Mazda, etc...) who started using outside vendors/countries to assemble or exchange parts have had growing problems with certain models, but not all.
Having been an owner of Honda civics, an Acura Integra, and Mazda 323 and Tirbute, I can atest to all 3 makes' reliability and durability, but it depends on what model. The 2003 Mazda Tribute ES (basically a Ford Escape assembled in Michigan), and I love this car, but I can tell you that the build quality and mechanical refinement is not up to par with the rx-8, Mazda3, and Mazdaspeed6 (more mechanical refinement with this particular model) - all of which are 95% designed and assembled in Japan. That's just the simple truth. Funny thing is I would never trade in my Tribute in for a CX-7 or RDX, because it's reliable and gets the job done. Since the current V-6 Mazda 6 (yes I have driven on on a business trip) shares the same platform and drivetrain as my Tribute, I will tell you that the Accord is better all around, and I would reccommend the Accord over it (but not the Mazdaspeed6). My other car is incidentally a 1988 Acura Integra with 244,000 miles without even a hint of wearing down. Call me old school but I believe this car to be ther greatest car ever built. I'll keep that thing forever.

kleptomaniak

point taken on the civics, call me the unluckiest guy on the planet, but with respect to the 1996 civic (which was the 1996 Automobile Car of the Year), it was not a matter of care. One arid cold morning, with about 3500 miles on it, the car just would not start. It was cranking, but just did not start.

I had the dealer tow it, and later that afternoon (when the temperature outside was warmer), it mysteriously started. They could not figure out why. They said that it could have been due to the abnormally dry cold morning and with the engine being so new "could not muster enough compression to start". Nevertheless I had them change the oil to rule out a bad batch of mineral, because I know that these engines are so precise that any deviation in quality or weight can have remarkably adverse results, and the problem never came back. I drove that car to 90,000k. I'd still reccommend civics over almost most compacts out there.

Count Blah

FWIW, i know someone with a 8-month old Mazda3 sedan, and she's not happy with the quality. She wants to trade it in for a Scion tC.

unlemming

I quoted your comment about the Acura tranny, not the mazda tranny. I know nothing about mazda trannys. My point was that you (the pot) were calling CL6 (the kettle) out.

CL6

Oh I see. Honda dropped the ball on some of their automatic transmissions so, therefore, nobody can ever say that Honda makes higher quality cars than X Brand. Is that right?

Count Blah

I stopped in at the Mazda dealership last night and test drove the CX-7. Not bad at all. I was impressed with the interior; fit and finish was high and it seemed much more upscale than the gimicky Mazda6. I drove it for just a few minutes.. the saleswoman said I could come back and take it out for a few hours if I wanted. It drove well, though, and accelerated nicely.

MrJumbo

The latest results of the JD Powers Inital Quality report was just released

The manuafactureres are ranked by problems per 100 vehicles:

#2 Lexus 93 pph
#4 Toyota 106 pph
#6 Honda 110 pph
#10 Acura 120 pph

Industry Average: 124 pph

# 25 Mercedes 139 pph
#27 BMW 142 pph
#28 Subaru 146 pph
#29 Mazda 150 pph

Also another measure on the value and quality of automobiles are lease residual values. Banks have a chance to weigh in on what a vehicle is worth in 3 - 6 years. Generally Honda (Acura) & Toyota (Lexus) products have higher residuals than most.

CL6

...sorta what I said. Thanks for the facts!

Colin

Hey hey, don't let the facts confuse the issue....

cajun_asian

TOKYO (Reuters) - Japan's Honda Motor Co. (7267.T) said on Wednesday it would recall and repair a combined 561,594 units of the Odyssey, CR-V and Step Wgn models globally to fix a faulty ignition switch that could cause the engine to stop.

ADVERTISEMENT

The recall and repairs would cost the company around 2.73 billion yen ($23.70 million), a spokeswoman said.

Of the total, 483,185 units are in Japan and were built between October 1994 and May 1997, Honda said in a filing with Japan's transport ministry.

Most of the recalls outside Japan cover the Odyssey minivan sold in North America. No accidents were reported overseas, while five people in Japan suffered burns from contact with melted ignition switches.

CL6

Like I said... every company has 'em but what is the overall quality:

2006 Mazda5 Minivan Recalled to Fix Fire Risk

September 22, 2005

Mazda Motor Corp. has halted worldwide production of the 2006 Mazda5 minivan and recalled 2,700 units in North America for exhaust system-related fires.

Mazda's also has ordered North American auto dealers to stop selling the minivan until the cause of the fires is discovered and remedied.

There are reports of three fires due to heat buildup in the exhaust system. Mazda has told customers to return their minivans to the dealer immediately. They will be given replacement transportation at no cost.

Mazda has told customers the company may take as long as 30 days to repair the vehicle.

cajun_asian

bottom line is that honda built a well-deserved rep for cars built in the past (and present), but more carmakers have caught up like Nissan, Subaru, Hyundai, and more than likely Mazda with their next generation of cars. And it is increasingly less accurate to say that Hondas (or Acuras) as a whole will create better cars than the rest. Let's stick with model-to-model comparisons. We can at least agree with things like this particular car is better than that one. This discussion is way to early to make any judgements about the RDX and CX7.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Note, this is a recall on cars that are nearly 12 years old. That's true customer support. A lot of companies would just say that it's out of warranty so tough shit.

icenoir

While I agree Honda/ Acura does a decent job with recalls, these recalls are done because if people get hurt, they will sue for much more than the cost of the recalls. Of Course, thats why all companies do recalls.

cajun_asian

Icenoir is absolutely correct. In addition, most car manufacturers will voluntarily recall before the goverment forces them to in order to avoid the appearance that they were forced to do it.

With respect to the Mazda5 recall, my aunt just bought one a few months ago, and I asked her if her car was recalled, and it was. She said that she was very happy with the service, that they even picked up the car for her and gave her a new MPV while the car was fixed. She also said that after they delivered the car to her home, they washed and waxed it for her. She then got a check for $500.00 the next month for Mazda. Now that is service no one can complain about. She loves that thing and she says that the quality is superior to most cars out there.

So we can go back and forth, and I seem to remember almost a million CRVs were recalled a couple of years ago, because of fire risk as well.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

Actually, I remember if the CR-V was never recalled. I think Honda issued a service bulletin to the dealers to remind techs that they needed to pay closer attention to ensure that the filters would seal correctly, but besides that, I don't remember if any additional steps were being taken.

cajun_asian

You're right it wasn't recalled, because it was technician installation error - not something Honda engineered. Honda was not sure how many CRVs were affected, and that why they ask that all the millions of CRVs be checked out. In any case, it made the news, and that's why I remember. Still, if you look at the NHTSB's website, there are several other recalls for the 2001-2004 CRVs (I was actually quite surprised). The CRV is a good car. The point I was trying to make is the difference in quality and reliability was true in the 80's and 90's, but many manufacturers have caught up. Based on the kind of cars that are coming out today, it is really less acurate to say that EVERY car Honda makes is better. This discussion is really premature to have in my opinion, because no one really knows about the RDX and CX7 apart from what the press puts out.

CL6

Nissan has closed the gap in quality but I've sat in plenty of new Nissans (and some Infiniti's) and the plastic is still not up to par in my opinion. The re-designed interior of the G35 is much better. So I'm sure they will eventually reach equality with Honda and Toyota. I'm sure Mazda is the same way. But shopping a Mazda with an Acura is still not the same.

We will all get a chance to see for ourselves about the RDX but it's certainly not going to be worse quality than the TSX.

Colin

I'm not so sure on this. They have to WANT to spend the money to upgrade these materials. For this to happen, the "car guys" have to convince the "bean counters" that spending more here... equals more sales later.

technics_speak

I'm actually rolling on the floor at some of the things some people have posted. Mazda will never be a Honda? Acura? lol - why? Do you even know why? Mazda's engineering is outstanding. Do any of you lemmings have a clue what direct-injection is, let alone what it means to a forced induction, internal combustion engine? Honda hasnt developed their direct injection fast enough to produce a DI K23A1 engine as used in the RDX. it's still a conventional turbo engine. Even worse, this is Honda's first turbo engine. SO while you have Mazda who has decades of turbo engine experience (if anyone remembers the F2T, it was an indestructable, high-torque 4cyl from the MID-EIGHTIES) that was one of the most understated powerplants of that era. Of course you wont remember it, because judging from some of the comments in this thread, a handful of you appear absolutely clueless. For you guy's its probably safer stickin' with what ya heard (and paying the premium for things like "names". Despite being in a joint economic venture with Ford, Mazda has already engineered an outstanding V6, in the early 90's which is marvellously engineered. They stepped away from developing their own V6 due to FOrd's suggestion. They spent the resources developing the L-series 4 cylinders for the CX-7, 3, 6, 5, MX-5 which all have detuned brothers sitting in Ford products internationally. What do you suppose it means when Ford openly uses another company's 4-cyl engines on such a massive scale? It means someone has done their engineering homework.

technics_speak

JUst to touch on the Mazda 5 recall: it appears there was a possibility for a fire along the exhaust system. No fires have been reported, but apparentyl they were worries because a spare tire had melted on one unit. Later on they discovered that an elderly driver unwittingly had the Active-matic transmission locked in 2nd gear at 6500rpm for extended periods of time on the highway. I think it's very responsible for a smaller company like Mazda to make this recall known for the safety of their owners, no matter how outlandish the problem may be, try telling that to PR- mongers like Honda and Toyota who would rather brush something under the rug and pay you off. Anyone hear about the Hondas (Oddyssey, Civic) that got shipped with HOLES in the engine block? These are 2002 models. Go figure.

CGTSX2004

iTrader: (1)

I'm sorry, but you've been drinking the kool-aid as much as the next guy so get off your pedestal and take your holier than thou attitude elsewhere.

technics_speak

meaning? have i offended you? i really meant it when i said youre a lemming. sorry guy.

CL6

Well... let's look at JD Power for 2006... shall we?

Mazda is at 150 problems per 100 vehicles. This is 9th from the bottom. The top? Porsche (surprise to me) with 91. Honda is 110. Acura is 120. Buick beats Mazda.

I never said Mazda built bad cars... I just said quality-wise they were not as good as 'First Tier' brands like Honda and Toyota.

Now I sell cars and a 'problem' could be the person doesn't know how to work the A/C and they said it didn't work... or it could be more serious.

And I know firsthand that Mazdas do not hold their value as well as Hondas and Toyotas. Now... you can write: "paying the premium for things like 'names'." but, to me... resale value is what you're getting, among other things.