COMMENTS OIL ADDITIVE SETTLING and SHELF LIFE
06-30-2012, 01:08 AM
#1
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
COMMENTS OIL ADDITIVE SETTLING and SHELF LIFE
Have you ever noticed additive settling in any oil bottle? Even with a relatively recent born-on date? Like only a year or so?
I had never noticed this until my last RDX oil change with Mobil-1 EP 5W30. Of course, I generally shake the quart bottles of oil for 1-minute before dumping into the engine. And I have never carefully looked in the bottom of the bottles, after they are empty. I have never shaken the 5-quart bottles, but will at least check for settling after this.
HERE IS WHAT VALVOLINE SAYS ABOUT OIL ADDITIVE SETTLING and SHELF LIFE:
· Valvoline the web site FAQs states The Valvoline Company does not have a documented shelf life exposure on finished motor oil or ATF. We would expect under optimal conditions that the product would be stable for an extended period of time. Shake the container before use. If the fluid sets, sometimes the additives may settle in the bottom of the container.
· Valvoline the web site FAQs states Any chemical that has been opened including brake fluid, power steering fluid, etc., has a recommended shelf life of no longer than 2-3 years, depending on storage.
HOW BAD WAS THE MOBIL-1 OIL SETTLING THAT I SAW?
Since I do not know how much additive is in a quart bottle of Mobil-1 oil, I cannot say just how much (percentage-wise) additive had settled to the bottom.
The 5-bottles of Extended Performance 5W30 all had some settling. The bottles were between 1 year and 18-months since the manufactured date on the bottles. I purchased the oil on sale.
A Mobil-1 quart bottle has an indentation in the outside bottom of the bottle, leaving a trough or crevice inside, in the bottom of the bottle, all around the bottom. The additive settling that I saw was along one side of the bottle, in the bottom of this crevice.
When I first looked inside the bottle, holding the bottle up to strong daylight, I thought that I was seeing dirt on the outside of the bottom of the bottle. The additive was a sort of dark brown smudge. But simply shaking the bottle with a couple of ounces of oil in the bottom, and the dirt had re-dissolved back into the oil. So it was inside, not outside, the bottle.
So I just poured a couple of ounces from one bottle to the next, until the settled additives in all 5 bottles was dissolved, and then poured that into the RDX engine. Did that really make any difference? No idea.
SETTLING IN REDLINE ATF:
I use RedLine brand ATF in my Chevy transmission. I have noticed a little settling in the molding crevice in the bottom of the bottles, for the Racing Lightweight p/n 30314 in two bottles that were 18 months old.
I have not noticed settling in either the Synthetic Racing p/n 30304 or the D4 p/n 30504, in bottles that were between 6-months and 2-years old.
IS AN OLD BOTTLE OF OIL MORE PRONE TO ADDITIVE SETTLING?
I did not notice any correlation between age of bottle and settling, but I have only checked about 15 bottles (3 oil changes) at this point. But I find it disconcerting that none of the bottles were more than 18-months old, and the newest bottles were the ones with settling. The older bottles had none.
After noting some additive settling, I am even less inclined to use an oil which has reached the end of its shelf life. For those brands which state that they have no limited shelf life, I will be using the shelf life as defined by Mobil-1 as a reference. Anyway, here is what various oil manufacturers have to say about shelf life:
OIL SHELF LIFE:
· Castrol their phone helpline stated that the shelf life of all their oil products is 3 years.
· Mobil 1 their web site states that (synthetic) engine oil has a shelf life of 5 years (in the FAQs section). Some of the current production oils have an expiration date stamped on the bottle/ container. No data is provided for on the shelf life of Mobil 1 gear oil. No data is provided for the shelf life of Mobil non-synthetic oil.
· Pennzoil non-synthetic estimated at 3 years
· Red Line products their phone helpline stated that there is no shelf life.
· Valvoline the web site FAQs states The Valvoline Company does not have a documented shelf life exposure on finished motor oil or ATF. We would expect under optimal conditions that the product would be stable for an extended period of time.
· Valvoline the web site FAQs states Any chemical that has been opened including brake fluid, power steering fluid, etc., has a recommended shelf life of no longer than 2-3 years, depending on storage.
WHAT EFFECT DOES STORAGE HAVE ON ADDITIVE SETTLING?
I have no information on this, but do note that Valvoline does comment (above) that maximum shelf life depends upon storage under optimal conditions. A garage that varies in temperature over 100 degrees between summer and winter cannot be consider optimal.
I store the oil for my next oil change in my basement, which is constantly between 60-70 degrees, winter or summer. Of course, I am not storing 100 bottles of oil, just 5 or 10 bottles. And I do not store opened bottles in the basement, but in the garage. Plus I make damned sure that any oil in the basement is not next to the furnace.
WHAT I PLAN TO DO IN THE FUTURE:
Instead of shaking all of the bottles before opening, I will pour 3/4 of the bottle, then check for any settling. If no settling, just pour the rest. If there is some settling, shake the remaining 1/4-bottle to dissolve the settled additive, then pour the rest. Saves time from shaking all of the bottles, and forces me to check every bottle for settling.
--------eof
I had never noticed this until my last RDX oil change with Mobil-1 EP 5W30. Of course, I generally shake the quart bottles of oil for 1-minute before dumping into the engine. And I have never carefully looked in the bottom of the bottles, after they are empty. I have never shaken the 5-quart bottles, but will at least check for settling after this.
HERE IS WHAT VALVOLINE SAYS ABOUT OIL ADDITIVE SETTLING and SHELF LIFE:
· Valvoline the web site FAQs states The Valvoline Company does not have a documented shelf life exposure on finished motor oil or ATF. We would expect under optimal conditions that the product would be stable for an extended period of time. Shake the container before use. If the fluid sets, sometimes the additives may settle in the bottom of the container.
· Valvoline the web site FAQs states Any chemical that has been opened including brake fluid, power steering fluid, etc., has a recommended shelf life of no longer than 2-3 years, depending on storage.
HOW BAD WAS THE MOBIL-1 OIL SETTLING THAT I SAW?
Since I do not know how much additive is in a quart bottle of Mobil-1 oil, I cannot say just how much (percentage-wise) additive had settled to the bottom.
The 5-bottles of Extended Performance 5W30 all had some settling. The bottles were between 1 year and 18-months since the manufactured date on the bottles. I purchased the oil on sale.
A Mobil-1 quart bottle has an indentation in the outside bottom of the bottle, leaving a trough or crevice inside, in the bottom of the bottle, all around the bottom. The additive settling that I saw was along one side of the bottle, in the bottom of this crevice.
When I first looked inside the bottle, holding the bottle up to strong daylight, I thought that I was seeing dirt on the outside of the bottom of the bottle. The additive was a sort of dark brown smudge. But simply shaking the bottle with a couple of ounces of oil in the bottom, and the dirt had re-dissolved back into the oil. So it was inside, not outside, the bottle.
So I just poured a couple of ounces from one bottle to the next, until the settled additives in all 5 bottles was dissolved, and then poured that into the RDX engine. Did that really make any difference? No idea.
SETTLING IN REDLINE ATF:
I use RedLine brand ATF in my Chevy transmission. I have noticed a little settling in the molding crevice in the bottom of the bottles, for the Racing Lightweight p/n 30314 in two bottles that were 18 months old.
I have not noticed settling in either the Synthetic Racing p/n 30304 or the D4 p/n 30504, in bottles that were between 6-months and 2-years old.
IS AN OLD BOTTLE OF OIL MORE PRONE TO ADDITIVE SETTLING?
I did not notice any correlation between age of bottle and settling, but I have only checked about 15 bottles (3 oil changes) at this point. But I find it disconcerting that none of the bottles were more than 18-months old, and the newest bottles were the ones with settling. The older bottles had none.
After noting some additive settling, I am even less inclined to use an oil which has reached the end of its shelf life. For those brands which state that they have no limited shelf life, I will be using the shelf life as defined by Mobil-1 as a reference. Anyway, here is what various oil manufacturers have to say about shelf life:
OIL SHELF LIFE:
· Castrol their phone helpline stated that the shelf life of all their oil products is 3 years.
· Mobil 1 their web site states that (synthetic) engine oil has a shelf life of 5 years (in the FAQs section). Some of the current production oils have an expiration date stamped on the bottle/ container. No data is provided for on the shelf life of Mobil 1 gear oil. No data is provided for the shelf life of Mobil non-synthetic oil.
· Pennzoil non-synthetic estimated at 3 years
· Red Line products their phone helpline stated that there is no shelf life.
· Valvoline the web site FAQs states The Valvoline Company does not have a documented shelf life exposure on finished motor oil or ATF. We would expect under optimal conditions that the product would be stable for an extended period of time.
· Valvoline the web site FAQs states Any chemical that has been opened including brake fluid, power steering fluid, etc., has a recommended shelf life of no longer than 2-3 years, depending on storage.
WHAT EFFECT DOES STORAGE HAVE ON ADDITIVE SETTLING?
I have no information on this, but do note that Valvoline does comment (above) that maximum shelf life depends upon storage under optimal conditions. A garage that varies in temperature over 100 degrees between summer and winter cannot be consider optimal.
I store the oil for my next oil change in my basement, which is constantly between 60-70 degrees, winter or summer. Of course, I am not storing 100 bottles of oil, just 5 or 10 bottles. And I do not store opened bottles in the basement, but in the garage. Plus I make damned sure that any oil in the basement is not next to the furnace.
WHAT I PLAN TO DO IN THE FUTURE:
Instead of shaking all of the bottles before opening, I will pour 3/4 of the bottle, then check for any settling. If no settling, just pour the rest. If there is some settling, shake the remaining 1/4-bottle to dissolve the settled additive, then pour the rest. Saves time from shaking all of the bottles, and forces me to check every bottle for settling.
--------eof
10-01-2012, 01:34 AM
#2
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
UPDATE: pictures
Here are a couple of pictures I took. I cut the bottoms off a bottle of Mobil-1 5W30 Extended Performance oil (my RDX), and Mobil-1 5w30 High Mileage oil (my Chevy truck).
Both bottles of oil were 8-10 months old, when I opened them, and used the oil. These two bottles had the least amount of additive settling, of several empty bottles in my garage, waiting to be recycled. But the additive settlings was concentrated, so made the best pictures. These were from a previous oil change, before I started looking for additive settling.
I use only Mobil-1 oil, so I do not know how much of a problem this is with other brands of oil. After I started looking, I have found that almost every bottle out of the last 20 or so have had some settling. Usually, it settles all the way around the insides of the bottom, in that little channel you see in the pictures.
I pour all but 2-4 ounces from a quart, into the engine. Then I stand at the open door of my garage, in the shade, and hold the bottom of the bottle toward the outside sunlight. The Mobil-1 bottles are thin enough, that I can easily see any deposits. With direct sunlight, the gray Mobil-1 oil bottles become almost transparent. Then I just swirl the oil around the bottom of the bottle. The settled additives dissolve back into the oil, and I pour the remainder of the oil into the car engine.
I have tried shaking a full oil bottle, for a full minute, before opening it. That does not work for some reason, no matter how hard I shake. But just swirling a few ounces around the bottom of the bottle dissolves any settled additives in only about 10-20 seconds.
Just be sure to wipe the outside bottom of the bottles, with a paper towel, before looking down inside. The bottles are thin enough that dirt on the outside of the bottle bottoms can be seen from the inside of the bottle.
Since I started doing this, I have not used any 5-quart bottles in my oil-changes. So I do not know how much settling of oil additives occurs in these larger containers. I will post a picture next time I do use a larger oil container.
PICTURE: settled oil additives
--------eof
Here are a couple of pictures I took. I cut the bottoms off a bottle of Mobil-1 5W30 Extended Performance oil (my RDX), and Mobil-1 5w30 High Mileage oil (my Chevy truck).
Both bottles of oil were 8-10 months old, when I opened them, and used the oil. These two bottles had the least amount of additive settling, of several empty bottles in my garage, waiting to be recycled. But the additive settlings was concentrated, so made the best pictures. These were from a previous oil change, before I started looking for additive settling.
I use only Mobil-1 oil, so I do not know how much of a problem this is with other brands of oil. After I started looking, I have found that almost every bottle out of the last 20 or so have had some settling. Usually, it settles all the way around the insides of the bottom, in that little channel you see in the pictures.
I pour all but 2-4 ounces from a quart, into the engine. Then I stand at the open door of my garage, in the shade, and hold the bottom of the bottle toward the outside sunlight. The Mobil-1 bottles are thin enough, that I can easily see any deposits. With direct sunlight, the gray Mobil-1 oil bottles become almost transparent. Then I just swirl the oil around the bottom of the bottle. The settled additives dissolve back into the oil, and I pour the remainder of the oil into the car engine.
I have tried shaking a full oil bottle, for a full minute, before opening it. That does not work for some reason, no matter how hard I shake. But just swirling a few ounces around the bottom of the bottle dissolves any settled additives in only about 10-20 seconds.
Just be sure to wipe the outside bottom of the bottles, with a paper towel, before looking down inside. The bottles are thin enough that dirt on the outside of the bottle bottoms can be seen from the inside of the bottle.
Since I started doing this, I have not used any 5-quart bottles in my oil-changes. So I do not know how much settling of oil additives occurs in these larger containers. I will post a picture next time I do use a larger oil container.
PICTURE: settled oil additives
--------eof
10-02-2012, 08:41 PM
#4
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
From my original post:
· Valvoline – the web site FAQs states “The Valvoline Company does not have a documented shelf life exposure on finished motor oil or ATF. We would expect under optimal conditions that the product would be stable for an extended period of time. … Shake the container before use. If the fluid sets, sometimes the additives may settle in the bottom of the container.”
If it is not additive, what do you think it is?? is it dirt, in the last 20-30 FACTORY SEALED bottles manufactured over the past 2 years (I buy on sale and am slow to recycle bottles, which are collecting in my garage)?
If it is in a sealed bottle, I must assume that it belongs there. And the only thing that belongs inside a bottle of oil is the oil and the additives. And as Valvoline has clearly stated, oil additives do settle out to the bottom. I also found several other online comments concerning additive settling in various types of oil.
That is why I started looking inside my own oil bottles. This could have been a problem for the last 40 years, the length of time I have been changing my own oil. But I have never bothered to look inside the bottles after use, until now.
Or am I to assume that Mobil-1 oil is contaminated? every single bottle? every single type of engine oil?
I have also seen additive settling inside Mobil-1 Gear oil 75W90LS bottles.
· Valvoline – the web site FAQs states “The Valvoline Company does not have a documented shelf life exposure on finished motor oil or ATF. We would expect under optimal conditions that the product would be stable for an extended period of time. … Shake the container before use. If the fluid sets, sometimes the additives may settle in the bottom of the container.”
If it is not additive, what do you think it is?? is it dirt, in the last 20-30 FACTORY SEALED bottles manufactured over the past 2 years (I buy on sale and am slow to recycle bottles, which are collecting in my garage)?
If it is in a sealed bottle, I must assume that it belongs there. And the only thing that belongs inside a bottle of oil is the oil and the additives. And as Valvoline has clearly stated, oil additives do settle out to the bottom. I also found several other online comments concerning additive settling in various types of oil.
That is why I started looking inside my own oil bottles. This could have been a problem for the last 40 years, the length of time I have been changing my own oil. But I have never bothered to look inside the bottles after use, until now.
Or am I to assume that Mobil-1 oil is contaminated? every single bottle? every single type of engine oil?
I have also seen additive settling inside Mobil-1 Gear oil 75W90LS bottles.
10-05-2012, 02:22 PM
#5
No need to repeat, I read it the first time. They don't say that the tiny streak of dark stuff that clings to the bottom is additives. They say shake it because the contents may settle.
It seems like such a minute amount that no matter what it is, it doesn't matter.
I see you have a great attention to detail and I like that in most things too. If you want to keep searching for an answer to this try calling 1-800-ask-Mobil, they may have the answer you are looking for.
Quote:
Does motor oil expire? How long does motor oil generally last?
Valvoline motor oil does not have a documented expiration date. Under optimal conditions, the product is stable for an extended period of time and can be used as long as the American Petroleum Institute (API) rating on the label continues to meet or exceed the requirements listed in your owner's manual. If the rating is still current, shake the container before use to blend any additives that may have settled.
It seems like such a minute amount that no matter what it is, it doesn't matter.
I see you have a great attention to detail and I like that in most things too. If you want to keep searching for an answer to this try calling 1-800-ask-Mobil, they may have the answer you are looking for.
Quote:
Does motor oil expire? How long does motor oil generally last?
Valvoline motor oil does not have a documented expiration date. Under optimal conditions, the product is stable for an extended period of time and can be used as long as the American Petroleum Institute (API) rating on the label continues to meet or exceed the requirements listed in your owner's manual. If the rating is still current, shake the container before use to blend any additives that may have settled.
Last edited by DRR98; 10-05-2012 at 02:26 PM.
10-11-2012, 08:52 PM
#6
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
UPDATE: SOME ADDITIONAL COMMENTS
My primary purpose in starting this thread, was to encourage others to check the amount of settling in the oil that they use for an oil change. And to re-dissolve any minor settling before using the oil (shake the bottle). After emptying the bottle, inside the bottom should look as clean and clear as the sides. Also, any oil with significant content settling or signs of storage instability, should be discarded and not used.
The following are signs of storage instability in a lubricant:
· Settling out of the additives as a gel or sticky liquid
· Floc or haze in the liquid
· Precipitates/solid material in the bottom of the bottle
· Color change or haziness of the liquid
Sorry, I do not care what the oil settled contents/ deposits are called. I am more interested in how much content settling has occurred, and whether or not the oil is still stable enough to be safely used.
The amount of settling in your own oil bottle is what matters, not the amount in my picture. As I stated when I posted the picture: “These two bottles had the least amount of ... settling, of several ... bottles in my garage”.
BUT… the settled amount in some of my oil bottles was easily 50 times the amount shown in my picture. And in some bottles there was no settling at all. I have noticed some content settling in oil bottles from Honda, Mobil-1, Valvoline, Pennzoil, Red Line, and types engine oil, ATF, gear-lube, and Power Steering. In most cases the settling was trivial, in some cases it was noticeable but not significant. It all looks about the same as the picture I posted. I maintain multiple vehicles, so I commonly use various types and brands of oil.
I would define a minor amount of oil settling, to be a thin layer of deposits covering (only) the narrow channel around the bottom of the Mobil-1 oil bottle in my posted pic. And that small amount should be easily re-dissolved back into 4 ounces almost immediately, certainly less than one minute. Otherwise, I would consider that significant oil settling has occurred.
Significant oil settling or storage instability is an indication that the oil has reached the end of its shelf life. The oil should be discarded and not used.
ABOUT MANUFACTURER TELEPHONE HELP LINES:
The only VALID and VERIFIABLE information you can get from an oil company, is what is printed on the oil bottle, or posted online on their web site. And don’t forget their MSDS (manufacturer safety data sheet), which is government REQUIRED and often contains some useful information. Anything else may be helpful or interesting, but certainly should not considered “a fact”.
When you talk to the manufacturers’ help lines, you are talking to someone (possibly in India) who has maybe never even seen the product, much less knows anything about the product. That person is going to respond from what is called a “cheat-sheet”. If your question matches one on their cheat-sheet, then you may (or may not) get a valid response. Otherwise, you are likely to get a guess, or perhaps best – “I don’t know”. Please keep this in mind when speaking to the help lines yourself.
Oil companies also have a TECHNICAL help line, which you can talk to if you are persistent enough (and I am). But again, you are unlikely to actually talk to an engineer who “makes” the oil. Engineers have actual work to perform, which does not involve chatting with consumers on the phone.
STORAGE IN FREEZING WEATHER INCREASES OIL SETTLING, AND DECREASES OIL SHELF LIFE:
SOPUS (Shell Oil Products US) and Mobil both state that storage in freezing conditions can reduce the shelf life from 5 years to only 2 years. And if the oil has been opened and exposed to air, then the shelf life is reduced to only 1-year, regardless of storage conditions.
Anyone with high-school chemistry understands that cooler temps increase precipitation (settling) in liquids. Keep this in mind if you routinely store your oil in a garage during the winter, as even one winter in freezing conditions is considered “long-term-storage”.
The following link says (my emphasis added):
http://www.kewengineering.co.uk/Auto_oils/motor_oils_faqs.htm
Generally, if stored in a dry, moderately stable area with regard to temperature, then oil can last a long time. However, additives can settle out after a period and so recommended best practice in industry is for a maximum shelf life of 12 months. In a domestic situation, 2 -3 yrs would be acceptable assuming it has been sealed. I would also suggest shaking the container prior to use to help re-suspend the additives that may have settled out.
I know that experts will say the oil can be stored for much longer, but allowing for the fact that the oil is often blended and packaged up to 2 years before you buy it, then the limit of 2yrs is a good safety margin. Hopefully the oil will have been in good storage conditions in the retail stage between the blending plant and your car, but don't count on it either.
The following links say (my emphasis added):
http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html
Read more: http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html#ixzz1zSfJ9poj
In general, liquid lubricants (ie. oils, not greases) will remain intact for a number of years. The main factor affecting the life of the oil is the storage condition for the products. Exposure to extreme temperature changes, and moisture will reduce the shelf life of the lubricants. (An increase of 10°C doubles oxidation which halves the shelf life) ie. don't leave it in the sun with the lid off. Best to keep them sealed and unopened.
USE THE DATE CODE ON THE OIL BOTTLE:
Every major oil company clearly prints a date code on every bottle of every type of oil, not just engine oil but ATF, gear oil, power steering fluid, etc.
Considering the vagaries of oil storage by the distributor and retailer, I do not use any oil that is 2-years past the bottling date code printed on the bottle, regardless of what the oil company says about the shelf life of their product. And that includes all synthetics. Mineral oils I do not use if more than 1-year past the printed date code.
I do not purchase oil that has been sitting “on-the-shelf” for 2 years. I purchase oil that is not more than 6-months old. And if I do not plan to use it immediately, I store it under controlled conditions in my heated basement, not in my garage exposed to freezing temperatures.
Yes, I will store a partial bottle of oil in the garage, for a few months, in case I need to top-up between oil changes. Then I recycle that partial bottle of oil – I certainly do not use it at the next oil change. And I do not store opened oil bottles inside my basement, for reasons of air quality and safety.
WHAT ABOUT THOSE QUICKIE LUBE PLACES and CAR DEALERS, THAT USE BULK OIL:
Well, I personally have never allowed the use of bulk oil in any of my own cars, long before I even started to think about oil settling. And yes, the oil companies acknowledge that oil settling is greater in those 55 gallon drums. Again, it depends upon the storage conditions and how long the oil has been in that barrel. I am personally concerned about possible oil contamination, especially if the barrel itself has been recycled.
And the Jiffy-Lube brand quick-oil-change chain where I live actually uses the same oil container(s) continuously. They just refill it from time-to-time. I find that especially disturbing. Who knows what is in the bottom of the container? If Jiffy-Lube ever cleans their containers, how would they do it? I am not picking on Jiffy-Lube, I go there myself. Any lube-shop has this same problem.
Anyway, I have always preferred to use an oil viscosity (weight) or brand that was not in the bulk containers. So I have always paid extra to have factory-sealed bottled oil put into my own cars, on those occasions when I pay to have my oil changed. And I have _never_ allowed any partial bottles to be used (previously opened for a previous oil change on someone else’s car).
SLIGHTLY OFF-TOPIC: GREASE SHELF LIFE
Mobil-1 also date codes their chassis grease. Well, it’s the oil in the grease that provides (most of) the lubrication, so this is not really that off-topic. The solid part is the carrier (to keep the oil from draining out of fittings) and the solid-additive package.
The following link says (my emphasis added):
http://www.kewengineering.co.uk/Auto_oils/motor_oils_faqs.htm
... the recommended storage is less, at 6 months in industry. Again, for home use, 2-3yrs is ok, and possibly longer assuming your garage is dry and relatively protected from low temperatures. However, a problem known as bleed happens with grease, and so it is advised to always store the grease gun and tubes of grease horizontally to avoid the oil bleeding off to the top of the gun or the tube.
[my edit: my local NAPA store displays grease tubes vertically, the O’Reilly store displays them horizontally. I store my personal grease-gun in my basement (horizontally), inside a sealed garbage bag, in case of any minor leakage.]
Any containers of grease should be kept sealed between use and if it doesn't have a loading/feeder plate on the surface of the grease then lay a sheet of plastic over the top to minimize the exposure of the grease to the air.
---EOF
My primary purpose in starting this thread, was to encourage others to check the amount of settling in the oil that they use for an oil change. And to re-dissolve any minor settling before using the oil (shake the bottle). After emptying the bottle, inside the bottom should look as clean and clear as the sides. Also, any oil with significant content settling or signs of storage instability, should be discarded and not used.
The following are signs of storage instability in a lubricant:
· Settling out of the additives as a gel or sticky liquid
· Floc or haze in the liquid
· Precipitates/solid material in the bottom of the bottle
· Color change or haziness of the liquid
Sorry, I do not care what the oil settled contents/ deposits are called. I am more interested in how much content settling has occurred, and whether or not the oil is still stable enough to be safely used.
The amount of settling in your own oil bottle is what matters, not the amount in my picture. As I stated when I posted the picture: “These two bottles had the least amount of ... settling, of several ... bottles in my garage”.
BUT… the settled amount in some of my oil bottles was easily 50 times the amount shown in my picture. And in some bottles there was no settling at all. I have noticed some content settling in oil bottles from Honda, Mobil-1, Valvoline, Pennzoil, Red Line, and types engine oil, ATF, gear-lube, and Power Steering. In most cases the settling was trivial, in some cases it was noticeable but not significant. It all looks about the same as the picture I posted. I maintain multiple vehicles, so I commonly use various types and brands of oil.
I would define a minor amount of oil settling, to be a thin layer of deposits covering (only) the narrow channel around the bottom of the Mobil-1 oil bottle in my posted pic. And that small amount should be easily re-dissolved back into 4 ounces almost immediately, certainly less than one minute. Otherwise, I would consider that significant oil settling has occurred.
Significant oil settling or storage instability is an indication that the oil has reached the end of its shelf life. The oil should be discarded and not used.
ABOUT MANUFACTURER TELEPHONE HELP LINES:
The only VALID and VERIFIABLE information you can get from an oil company, is what is printed on the oil bottle, or posted online on their web site. And don’t forget their MSDS (manufacturer safety data sheet), which is government REQUIRED and often contains some useful information. Anything else may be helpful or interesting, but certainly should not considered “a fact”.
When you talk to the manufacturers’ help lines, you are talking to someone (possibly in India) who has maybe never even seen the product, much less knows anything about the product. That person is going to respond from what is called a “cheat-sheet”. If your question matches one on their cheat-sheet, then you may (or may not) get a valid response. Otherwise, you are likely to get a guess, or perhaps best – “I don’t know”. Please keep this in mind when speaking to the help lines yourself.
Oil companies also have a TECHNICAL help line, which you can talk to if you are persistent enough (and I am). But again, you are unlikely to actually talk to an engineer who “makes” the oil. Engineers have actual work to perform, which does not involve chatting with consumers on the phone.
STORAGE IN FREEZING WEATHER INCREASES OIL SETTLING, AND DECREASES OIL SHELF LIFE:
SOPUS (Shell Oil Products US) and Mobil both state that storage in freezing conditions can reduce the shelf life from 5 years to only 2 years. And if the oil has been opened and exposed to air, then the shelf life is reduced to only 1-year, regardless of storage conditions.
Anyone with high-school chemistry understands that cooler temps increase precipitation (settling) in liquids. Keep this in mind if you routinely store your oil in a garage during the winter, as even one winter in freezing conditions is considered “long-term-storage”.
The following link says (my emphasis added):
http://www.kewengineering.co.uk/Auto_oils/motor_oils_faqs.htm
Generally, if stored in a dry, moderately stable area with regard to temperature, then oil can last a long time. However, additives can settle out after a period and so recommended best practice in industry is for a maximum shelf life of 12 months. In a domestic situation, 2 -3 yrs would be acceptable assuming it has been sealed. I would also suggest shaking the container prior to use to help re-suspend the additives that may have settled out.
I know that experts will say the oil can be stored for much longer, but allowing for the fact that the oil is often blended and packaged up to 2 years before you buy it, then the limit of 2yrs is a good safety margin. Hopefully the oil will have been in good storage conditions in the retail stage between the blending plant and your car, but don't count on it either.
The following links say (my emphasis added):
http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html
Read more: http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html#ixzz1zSfJ9poj
In general, liquid lubricants (ie. oils, not greases) will remain intact for a number of years. The main factor affecting the life of the oil is the storage condition for the products. Exposure to extreme temperature changes, and moisture will reduce the shelf life of the lubricants. (An increase of 10°C doubles oxidation which halves the shelf life) ie. don't leave it in the sun with the lid off. Best to keep them sealed and unopened.
USE THE DATE CODE ON THE OIL BOTTLE:
Every major oil company clearly prints a date code on every bottle of every type of oil, not just engine oil but ATF, gear oil, power steering fluid, etc.
Considering the vagaries of oil storage by the distributor and retailer, I do not use any oil that is 2-years past the bottling date code printed on the bottle, regardless of what the oil company says about the shelf life of their product. And that includes all synthetics. Mineral oils I do not use if more than 1-year past the printed date code.
I do not purchase oil that has been sitting “on-the-shelf” for 2 years. I purchase oil that is not more than 6-months old. And if I do not plan to use it immediately, I store it under controlled conditions in my heated basement, not in my garage exposed to freezing temperatures.
Yes, I will store a partial bottle of oil in the garage, for a few months, in case I need to top-up between oil changes. Then I recycle that partial bottle of oil – I certainly do not use it at the next oil change. And I do not store opened oil bottles inside my basement, for reasons of air quality and safety.
WHAT ABOUT THOSE QUICKIE LUBE PLACES and CAR DEALERS, THAT USE BULK OIL:
Well, I personally have never allowed the use of bulk oil in any of my own cars, long before I even started to think about oil settling. And yes, the oil companies acknowledge that oil settling is greater in those 55 gallon drums. Again, it depends upon the storage conditions and how long the oil has been in that barrel. I am personally concerned about possible oil contamination, especially if the barrel itself has been recycled.
And the Jiffy-Lube brand quick-oil-change chain where I live actually uses the same oil container(s) continuously. They just refill it from time-to-time. I find that especially disturbing. Who knows what is in the bottom of the container? If Jiffy-Lube ever cleans their containers, how would they do it? I am not picking on Jiffy-Lube, I go there myself. Any lube-shop has this same problem.
Anyway, I have always preferred to use an oil viscosity (weight) or brand that was not in the bulk containers. So I have always paid extra to have factory-sealed bottled oil put into my own cars, on those occasions when I pay to have my oil changed. And I have _never_ allowed any partial bottles to be used (previously opened for a previous oil change on someone else’s car).
SLIGHTLY OFF-TOPIC: GREASE SHELF LIFE
Mobil-1 also date codes their chassis grease. Well, it’s the oil in the grease that provides (most of) the lubrication, so this is not really that off-topic. The solid part is the carrier (to keep the oil from draining out of fittings) and the solid-additive package.
The following link says (my emphasis added):
http://www.kewengineering.co.uk/Auto_oils/motor_oils_faqs.htm
... the recommended storage is less, at 6 months in industry. Again, for home use, 2-3yrs is ok, and possibly longer assuming your garage is dry and relatively protected from low temperatures. However, a problem known as bleed happens with grease, and so it is advised to always store the grease gun and tubes of grease horizontally to avoid the oil bleeding off to the top of the gun or the tube.
[my edit: my local NAPA store displays grease tubes vertically, the O’Reilly store displays them horizontally. I store my personal grease-gun in my basement (horizontally), inside a sealed garbage bag, in case of any minor leakage.]
Any containers of grease should be kept sealed between use and if it doesn't have a loading/feeder plate on the surface of the grease then lay a sheet of plastic over the top to minimize the exposure of the grease to the air.
---EOF
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CG's 3GTL (09-16-2013)
09-16-2013, 04:22 PM
#7
Instructor
Thank you for all this information.
I have been using the Redline fluid for a few years. I was up for a fluid change yesterday and after I drained and filled the fluid my transmission was unresponsive.
I went to the autoparts store and bought some "new" ATF and changed the fluid again and the transmission engaged and work without any issues.
I guess there must have been more sediment that I thought, because when I added the last bottle, at the bottom of the bottle, I found a thing amount of gel like sediment, which I did not put in, however there must have been more than I thought because when the redline was added, the transmission worked for about 50 feet and then gave up. With the new fluid it ran flawlessly.
The Redline was about a 1 1/2 years old.
I have been using the Redline fluid for a few years. I was up for a fluid change yesterday and after I drained and filled the fluid my transmission was unresponsive.
I went to the autoparts store and bought some "new" ATF and changed the fluid again and the transmission engaged and work without any issues.
I guess there must have been more sediment that I thought, because when I added the last bottle, at the bottom of the bottle, I found a thing amount of gel like sediment, which I did not put in, however there must have been more than I thought because when the redline was added, the transmission worked for about 50 feet and then gave up. With the new fluid it ran flawlessly.
The Redline was about a 1 1/2 years old.
Trending Topics
09-16-2013, 11:28 PM
#8
Burning Brakes
Thread Starter
Glad you found it useful.
I have noted some minor settling in many of the RedLine bottles that I have used, depending upon how old and how the bottles were stored - freezing cold seems to cause more additive settling, in my limited observations.
I cannot say, however, if the settling caused the problems with your trans. But I find your observation interesting.
Based on your purchase date, or on the manufacturing date on the bottle? That is a retorical question. I have purchased bottles of RedLine that was already a couple of years old - my local sources are limited, and tend to have old stock because they don't sell much.
If you wish to know how to read date codes, try this link:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=775691
... I have been using the Redline fluid for a few years. I was up for a fluid change yesterday and after I drained and filled the fluid my transmission was unresponsive.
...
I guess there must have been more sediment that I thought, because when I added the last bottle, at the bottom of the bottle, I found a thing amount of gel like sediment, which I did not put in, however there must have been more than I thought because when the redline was added, the transmission worked for about 50 feet and then gave up. With the new fluid it ran flawlessly.
...
...
I guess there must have been more sediment that I thought, because when I added the last bottle, at the bottom of the bottle, I found a thing amount of gel like sediment, which I did not put in, however there must have been more than I thought because when the redline was added, the transmission worked for about 50 feet and then gave up. With the new fluid it ran flawlessly.
...
I cannot say, however, if the settling caused the problems with your trans. But I find your observation interesting.
Based on your purchase date, or on the manufacturing date on the bottle? That is a retorical question. I have purchased bottles of RedLine that was already a couple of years old - my local sources are limited, and tend to have old stock because they don't sell much.
If you wish to know how to read date codes, try this link:
https://acurazine.com/forums/showthread.php?t=775691
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